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Author Topic: NDT Final Round transcripts  (Read 9956 times)
CouldaBeenaContenda
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« on: January 21, 2014, 02:53:45 PM »

Back in the dark ages of debate, the only window we had into the past was the annual transcript of the NDT's final round, published in the Journal of the American Forensic Association.  I read every transcript from the early 1960s through 1980 and flowsheeted them all, as did many debaters of that era, but I then became oblivious to debate over the next couple of decades.  Have transcripts of more recent final rounds been produced?  In particular, I'd like to read the 2013 final round.  I tried to listen to it on youtube but the audio quality was poor and frankly, I doubt that most judges are actually listening to contemporary debate as much as they might be simply recognizing familiar material.  I think that in order to "get" that final round, it might take an uninvolved person a full workday or more, and with all due respects to the participants, there is no way I could possibly consider devoting that much time and effort to it.

A few months ago, I did force myself to listen to the audio of the 1961 Final Round, featuring 2nd affirmative speaker Lawrence Tribe, whom I'm sure many of you have cited as an authority on Constitutional Law.  Man, was that round a snooze!  I mean, the first affirmative spent about the first three minutes of his constructive speech familiarizing the audience of about 400 with the subject area, which was necessarily an arduous task as it consisted mostly of people who did not eat, sleep and breath the topic.  For a lot of that audience, that might have been the first debate they had ever seen and so common courtesy mandated that the affirmative case be presented such that it could be understood by one and all.

The transcript of the 1969 Final Round was by far the most widely circulated and read transcript of that era.  The outcome is sometimes viewed as an upset win by Harvard, as one of the Harvard debaters was just a freshman and their opponent, the University of Houston, was the first modern debate juggernaut and arguably the best team to never win the NDT, but the fact is that those two teams were 3 and 3 against one another that year, so that final round was the ultimate "rubber match".  It had been rumored that Houston had actually found a way to use computers to help them manage their evidence, but I don't know if that suspicion was ever confirmed.  For three years running, their top pairing would win about 90% of its rounds and about 80% of the tournaments they entered, but they always got derailed at the NDT.  Anyone more interested in that epic confrontation might want to read the recollections of one of the participants, Joel Perwin, on the NDT website: http://groups.wfu.edu/NDT/HistoricalLists/1969DebateFinals/1969NDTFinals.htm
« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 10:30:50 AM by CouldaBeenaContenda » Logged

Dover (New Hampshire) High School debate team, 1967-1970
Dover High School Debate Coach, 1970-1971
University of New Hampshire debate team, 1970 (when we still spoke like human beings)
University of New Hampshire debate team, 1980-1981 (and when we didn't)
UNH assistant debate coach, 1980-1981
Paul Elliott Johnson
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« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2014, 03:23:13 PM »

they no longer produce transcripts of final rounds. they have, with some inconsistency, published ballots from the final rounds.
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CouldaBeenaContenda
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Posts: 73


« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2014, 10:06:19 PM »

Regrettably, the link on the NDT website to the 2013 ballots, like about two dozen links on that site, doesn't work.  http://groups.wfu.edu/NDT/Results/JudgesBallots2013final.htm .

Back in late December of 2012, I exchanged correspondence with that site's webmaster, Mr. Louden, regarding some earlier tournament information and he actually e-mailed me the pdfs of some ancient material that probably wasn't of any interest to anyone but me, which I very much appreciated.  He said at the time he had a student adding some pages to the site and that he hoped to be able to modernize it in the future, but little there has been repaired or augmented in the succeeding year.  Is that site the only place where one might eventually find postings of the judge's ballots?  It seems to me that the bizarre nature of the 2013 Finals would make those ballots especially interesting, and timely to those who are part of the present efforts to steer the NDT in one direction or another.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 03:56:47 PM by CouldaBeenaContenda » Logged

Dover (New Hampshire) High School debate team, 1967-1970
Dover High School Debate Coach, 1970-1971
University of New Hampshire debate team, 1970 (when we still spoke like human beings)
University of New Hampshire debate team, 1980-1981 (and when we didn't)
UNH assistant debate coach, 1980-1981
kelly young
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WWW
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2014, 10:19:39 PM »

Not all of them are here, but if you scroll down until you see "final round ballots," individual judges of the 2013 finals posted there ballots here http://www.cedadebate.org/forum/index.php/board,19.0.html
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Director of Forensics/Associate Professor
Wayne State University
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kelly.young [at] wayne.edu
www.wsuforensics.org
Whit
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Posts: 79


« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2014, 08:36:34 AM »

arguably the best team to never win the NDT

Emory Bailey/Ghali:
1999 - Finals of the NDT, Second in the Copeland Rankings
2000 - Semis of the NDT (walked over by eventual champions Emory HL), Second in the Copeland Rankings
2001 - Finals of the NDT, Fifth in the Copeland Rankings

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CouldaBeenaContenda
Jr. Member
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Posts: 73


« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2014, 11:40:13 AM »

Oh, yeah?  Oh, yeah??  Grin



http://www.debateteamdocumentary.com/resourcesfolder/69photos.html

(BTW, the funny costumes they are wearing are called "suits")  Wink
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 11:46:21 AM by CouldaBeenaContenda » Logged

Dover (New Hampshire) High School debate team, 1967-1970
Dover High School Debate Coach, 1970-1971
University of New Hampshire debate team, 1970 (when we still spoke like human beings)
University of New Hampshire debate team, 1980-1981 (and when we didn't)
UNH assistant debate coach, 1980-1981
skinner
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« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2014, 01:40:37 AM »

For some reason, Chris Baron likes to transcribe final round transcripts.  I question his sanity but if you have something you want to share with him his email is ciibaron@gmail.com.
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