EVERY 2A MUST REJECT SYRIAN WAR

[zanezor]

We have been researching war powers for the past few months---at least all the 2As should be flipping out about the Senate's anti-constitutional resolution---I'm sure you've got at least 3 good reasons why eviscerating the constitution and giving away all possible war power in the name of "national security interests" is going to lead the planet to nuclear annihilatio (plus all those add-ons)
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/09/the-senates-syria-resolution-has-a-huge-secret-giveaway-to-the-president/279421/

we are talking about another Vietnam/Iraq/Afghanistan, this article cites the wall street journal, we've already got CIA advisors o nthe ground, Kennedy did the same thing before we invaded---http://truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/item/18181-pentagon-involvement-in-syria-likely-to-ramp-up-as-us-role-in-war-deepens

Please call your house representatives and make the youth voice heard---calll and mobilize all your friends---hold public debates against expanding obama's authority to go to war in syria

WE HAVE 2-3 DAYS BEFORE A VOTE---THAT'S A TON OF TIME, IMAGINE THE COPELAND (OF HUMAN DIGNITY) IS RIDING ON THIS---SILENCE IS ACTION AND CONSENT.

please brainstorm ways to resist warfare in this thread and PLEASE RESPOND---apathy is self-fulfilling, EVERY ONE OF YOU, ESPECIALLY YOU, THE ONE READING THIS VERY SENTENCE, HAS THE HEART AND MINDPOWER TO INFLUENCE AT LEAST 100 PEOPLE TO RESIST THE WAR, AT A MINIMUM---USE THAT POWER AND BELIEVE IN YOURSELF, PLEASE, FOR THE GOOD OF THE UNIVERSE!!!!!!

much love,
zane

[FranciscoBencosme]

Switch side Debate. Every 2N...

From a former 2A
Francisco Bencosme

[zanezor]

francisco---would love to have a two sided dialogue, and to hear your perspective if you dont mind sharing either via message to me on facebook or publicly here!  much love,
z

[eggs3]

Senate PICed out of boots on the ground

[zanezor]

sure, but as soon as the syrian/iranian response to our missiles harms an american (either a fighter plane getting shot down or a member of the military somewhere else in the region), then boots on the ground would be entirely Obama's call

[kearney]

please brainstorm ways to resist warfare in this thread and PLEASE RESPOND---apathy is self-fulfilling, EVERY ONE OF YOU, ESPECIALLY YOU, THE ONE READING THIS VERY SENTENCE, HAS THE HEART AND MINDPOWER TO INFLUENCE AT LEAST 100 PEOPLE TO RESIST THE WAR, AT A MINIMUM---USE THAT POWER AND BELIEVE IN YOURSELF, PLEASE, FOR THE GOOD OF THE UNIVERSE!!!!!!

i feel like social accountability messages aren't as effective when delivered in all caps. it's like...why are you yelling at me?

[THodgman]

There's also the truth question. Is Assad chiefly responsible for the use of chemical weapons in syria? There are a lot of people claiming he isn't:

http://rt.com/news/rebel-tunnel-damascus-chemical-940/
http://www.mintpressnews.com/witnesses-of-gas-attack-say-saudis-supplied-rebels-with-chemical-weapons/168135/
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/08/22/319943/syria-chemical-claims-israel-falseflag/

CNN has been caught staging news segments on syria with actors:

http://intellihub.com/2013/08/29/cnn-correspondent-syria-exposed-actor-caught-multiple-lies/

Even without broaching the question of 9/11 truth, the gulf of tonkin incident and the lead up to iraq war are both instances where false claims led to U.S. military engagement. If the USfg is lying, it wouldn't be the first time. Should anyone be "for" a war justified by claims that aren't true?

The first thing we need to do is figure out what's going on in Syria. It seems prudent to pair that with opposition to aggressive military action even if supporting that is usually your thing.

[JakeJustice]

lol, PressTV. Some good comments from the link you posted:

"This seams to be a Mossad-orchestrated false-flag to smokescreen a bigger Zionist plot. US,Israel,Saudi are targeting Egypt, Bahrain, Yemen (and probably Tunisia too) with a new wave of sectarian conflicts, destabilization and balkanization. They are desperately trying to turn the clock back to before-uprisings time across the region. But the scale of this tragedy/claims is overshadowing other big events, including the release of Mubarak. It's too early to conclude, but Syria and Yemen seams to be the main target of this new Zionist plot."

"I only hope that the results confirm it was CIA/ Jewlanders that did this, and the powers that be, totally ignore the request of the perpetrators to ..hide the results. And have the International war crimes body, to have these people arrested,and imprisoned.Even if it entails the Heads of the Governments involved.and we all know who im on about."

"Everybody with a shred of brain knows the Holocaust of WWII is Zionists' LIE but seeing crimes that have been committed by Jews and millions of innocent people murdered on their order since 1945 it is regrettable that it was fiction."

I'm not keen on the U.S. intervening in Syria...but is the whole thing a false flag? I doubt it.

[awbmccoy]

lol, PressTV. Some good comments from the link you posted:

I'm not keen on the U.S. intervening in Syria...but is the whole thing a false flag? I doubt it.

Thank you.

Also--Russian state-owned news and an Alex Jones partner organization as other "people saying there's controversy?" -- step your source game up.

[THodgman]

Jake:

It's unfortunate that people often supplement legitimate criticism of Israel with anti-semitism, because it tends to polarize discussions and distract from the difficult business of figuring out what's actually going on.

FWIW, Israelis support U.S. intervention in much greater numbers than Americans do:

http://www.jpost.com/National-News/Polls-Israelis-want-US-Europe-to-attack-Syria-but-against-IDF-intervention-324787

I don't know who used the chemical weapons, but the U.S., Saudi Arabia, and Israel do have a tightly-knit alliance and it's possible that they would do something like this and blame it on Assad in order to justify intervention. Kind of like when the U.S. ousted Saddam Hussein for allegedly possessing WMDs, nevermind that we put him in power and sold him chemical weapons in the 80s...

Andy:

I am skeptical of Russian state-owned news and I hope you extend the same skepticism towards U.S. propaganda as distributed through U.S. news networks like cnn, msnbc, fox news, etc. If RT is propaganda so are the USfg official's claims that Assad used chemical weapons. I'm not saying RT is right, just pointing out that we shouldn't be so confident that we actually know what's going on.

Same thing when it comes to Alex Jones and his affiliates. I am often skeptical of him and what he says, but I don't dismiss anything out of hand just because he said it.

For what it's worth, KRS-ONE said in an interview with Alex Jones that "hip hop stands with Alex Jones." While I often disagree with Alex Jones, I have a lot of respect for KRS-ONE. Make of that what you will.

[kelly young]

Jake:

It's unfortunate that people often supplement legitimate criticism of Israel with anti-semitism, because it tends to polarize discussions and distract from the difficult business of figuring out what actually happened.

Jake didn't make any claim that the Iranian TV show was anti-Semitic, but you know, they kinda have an incredible track record of being anti-Semitic and conspiratorial towards Israel. Doesn't citing these sources equally polarize and distract from the difficult business of figuring out what actually happened?

[THodgman]

I'm aware he didn't. I was interpreting his quotation of those comments charitably, and assumed he found them wanting because of the "jewlanders" thing and holocaust denial, not because they suggested that the cia and mossad sometimes undertake violent covert actions.

Iranian media is often anti-semitic, and us and israeli media is often islamophobic and anti-arab.

My only claim with regards to those links was that "some people dispute that assad used chemical weapons." I'm not sure how pointing that out derails searching for the truth.  

Iran and russia are allies of syria. If you exclude their claims but take u.s., israeli, and saudi claims at face value, you're not looking at the situation objectively. Taking a look at and taking seriously what both "sides" are saying isn't polarizing, it's the precondition of switch side debate.

EDIT: There is also this letter written by 12 former U.S. military and intelligence officials calling the "assad did it" narrative into question: http://consortiumnews.com/2013/09/06/obama-warned-on-syrian-intel/.

[zanezor]

Let's say Assad is entirely responsible.  We have 3 days to prevent strikes.  Let's figure out how.
Z

[joe]

we caused this...most of us voted for obama...what a joke

[brubaie]

What constrains Assad from using chemical weapons again if Britain, France and the U.S. all fold? Is there another credible mechanism if this resolution fails? I have a lot of hold ups about the military-industrial complex, strikes and violence writ large, but I haven't been able to answer this question in a way I feel satisfied with.